Lightroom 2.0 and the warm tones
August 4th, 2008
LR 2.0 is finally released in final version with a lot of improvements rather impressive (localized editing, import into photoshop as dynamic objects, support for 64bit ...), after receiving a few emails on the subject I decides to make a record fast enough on the management of those famous red / orange.
I am not going to make a report to this application listing the flow of benefits and new, some do it much better than me .
I'll just give you my opinion on his record that I have criticized repeatedly around on different forums and photo blogs. (Eg on the blog Vibert , the blog response picture , ect ..)
I had already tested the previous versions of LR with still a big problem that the rendering of skin tones and mainly the fact that RS was not in my opinion (based on number of items found on the net I was far from alone) can make the red / orange is unlike any other software available on the market.
This problem is made especially visible when you push the contrast of an image with a temperature hot enough, a series of fairly self-explanatory examples are available here.
I do not mean profiles, preferably rendering (rendering software provides each of its own)
The problem is not from RS but Camera RAW (basically the engine demosaicing this in photoshop) CR is the engine of LR, a bit like a luxury car with a full option scooter engine.
This problem is known by Adobe that LR had announced that 2.0 should include a new version of CR. Something that many photographers were waiting before migrating their entire workflow in LR.
So I installed LR 2.0 trial version to test the new engine.
First import image and brief comparison with an image from the old version of LR, nothing has changed, I always find myself facing these big applats, yellow / orange.
After a quick tour on the net, what is "normal" must initially install the new profiles created by Adobe ( these profiles are available here )
On the descriptive first pleasant surprise the new profile "Adobe Standard":
- Adobe Standard: camera profiles That Significantly Improve color rendering, Especially In reds, yellows, and oranges "(yes, finally!)
- And the new profile "Camera Matching" That profiles match the camera Manufacturers' color appearance. "(So basically the goal is to emulate the record of dpp and nx)
We download, LR is closed, you double click, it reopens the application we chose its image and profile.
First observation is better, this second finding is much better! it is much more accurate and quite readable, skin tones are comparable to those produced by other RAW processing software.
So Capture One bright LR and trash?
No, the rendering of Capture One and my preference has always been little work on my raw files (white balance, saturation, contrast) I prefer to stay on an application very light and very fast covering my needs perfectly.
On the other hand this new version of LR provides functionality rather interesting to work a little further. So I'll make some tests on my trial to determine whether RS is able to return to my workflow and save me time!
Examples
No test procedure very busy, I just exported lightroom the same images with the same settings but with different profls namely profile "ACR 4.4" and the new profile "Adobe Standard 1", then I kept the same temperature in Capture One with a contrast that seemed closest to the LR version (defects in red, orange is most visible in the contrasting images, saturated)
Profile ACR 4.4 Lightroom 
Lightroom 1 Adobe Standard Profile 
Capture One V4 
Profile ACR 4.4 Lightroom 
Lightroom 1 Adobe Standard Profile 
Capture One V4 
Profile ACR 4.4 Lightroom 
Lightroom 1 Adobe Standard Profile 
Capture One V4 
Profile ACR 4.4 Lightroom 
Lightroom 1 Adobe Standard Profile 
Capture One V4 
Profile ACR 4.4 Lightroom 
Lightroom 1 Adobe Standard Profile 
Capture One V4 
Conclusion
Lightroom has finally arrived maturation in terms of color rendering and thanks to the new profile that is currently in beta. Use this new version of lightroom without applying these new profiles is useless, we gain in functionality but remains at the same point in terms of color rendering.
Fairly close rendering of Capture One bonus with all the features offered by LR has made me seriously consider a passage in my workflow to Lightroom.
Rétrospectivment, I find a bit much from Abobe for offering a product knowing that the heart of their application suffered from a real rendering problem, knowing that it is the primary function of this type of software .
It's good to be back on an application that was developed by explaining that "people were not happy rendering thing" (see note to Eric Chan later in this article) but now it's good, we finally red tomatoes. It would have been better to offer these new profiles when users have realized.
The press also had a role to play and rather than stop raving about the features like generating web galleries, the print tool and all full of cool stuff not really needed, it would have been wise to criticize the heart even the application and therefore its primary function.
Note of 5 August 08:
An article interesting enough or Eric Chan (one of the guys that we had laid Camera RAW and more recently the new profile editor LR) explains why the new profile is still in Beta, why lightroom has never been able to by the past to offer deep reds.
"Many photographers Have Been Asking us for better color from Camera Raw and Lightroom. Do you find deep reds Becoming orange-ish and undersaturated? "
"With the new profiles, the main improvement is in the warm colors: reds, oranges, and yellows. Deep reds Should Saturated red APPEAR Indeed, without messing up skin tones. Maintained saturation is better in warm highlights, and warm colors are Easier To Distinguish. There are aussi Improvements in Other Colors, aim the exchange in warm colors are The Most noticeable. "
The link to this article http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/08/the_dng_profile_editor.html
August 5th, 2008 at 1:24
I will make my tested with Panasonic DMC-L10.
I also see that it is easier to create their own profiles right? I'll see if I do not know me dig up a Gretag color chart.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:25
You got me beat I was just preparing an article
And obviously your conclusions are identical to mine.
August 5th, 2008 at 3:40
YES!!!!!
Tralalalalala yay! I expected you to do a review before trying (laziness, laziness).
The colors are much better! The reds are red and finally finished verdrâtre these colors everywhere!
So happy and thanks for this post.
@ +
August 5th, 2008 at 7:55
For C1 briefly tasted I found the rendering rather highly saturated for my taste, with this new version of LR I think the picture is far more basic neutral (I use the profile against "neutral" by default). It remains to see if it makes me more work Demades PP or if another profile would be better suited.
In any case this change of color profiles is rather interesting!
August 5th, 2008 at 8:29
Savior of the crowds!
August 5th, 2008 at 9:52
Excellent ... Yesterday I spend on the blog response and I see picture on the front page a comment critical of a guy who just before the setting of lightroom and signed by RP ... Benjamin! I suspected it was you, and now today you balance an article on LR2.
Bravo for the examples in picture ... but what is impressive is that even with the Beta profile, there is always dominant with respect to C1 which gives more neutral tones! (I do not mean that ACR4 .4 in your examples are more catastrophic than a side of C1!)
But it seems that Adobe still has finally deciding to get involved in work on the profiles of LR ... It's still reassuring.
Thank you for the article in any case (and especially for the tip on the profile Beta!)
A +
August 5th, 2008 at 10:23
Haaa, that's great and it's great news! we can finally work seriously (at least I'll have more especially as an excuse to not get to work)!
thank you for this test
August 5th, 2008 at 10:26
thank you for the info! By cons you indicate that LR2 + profile corrects a lot of problem tones ("maturation"), but I still see quite a difference from C1!! I'm surprised you do not notice it more in your conclusion!
August 5th, 2008 at 10:39
Damn worth it all!
I am struggling a bit with my editing software Capture One 4 ... globally for its speed and especially its rendering but I still come back often for Capture NX 1 Nikon File respect for the work is clean and perfect where C1 destroyed a bit pixels (visible as zoom 100%). But the color rendition is superb C1 (color rendering and bright light).
So if a program like LR is able to offer an alternative that may be interesting because it adds some features that I have to get in Camera Raw with Photoshop occasionally and casually lost my pc very much in performance when three programs are open and View NX.
LR2 the solution? Wait and see, I await the result of your article because you research before any rendering rather than a workflow and we agree about it in the priorities.
August 5th, 2008 at 24:01
Benjamin thank you for this little review test, recently I switched to RAW Shooter Premium to LR, I noted this update but not taken the time to look at it in detail. Now I'll watch it more closely.
August 5th, 2008 at 24:04
Hehe glad that I managed to reach the same conclusion without feeling inspired by your article. I also installed LR2 to test, because since I had tested One V4 C, for the portrait I had given up her veil LR and yellow. After installing the V2 and Adobe profiles: yum. And then the final version is faster than the beta at local editing (thankfully) and faster than an RS at interface.
I just have to figure out how to put the default calibration without having to type it for each photo
August 5th, 2008 at 24:21
Thank you the record, and I repeat, the only pictures that shocks me is that of the dog, which I really see the difference between the tones.
See you soon
August 5th, 2008 at 24:32
I answer myself for what would be interested.
To apply the instrument calibration with profiles as explained by Ben: in the development section> create a new preset, uncheck everything and keep CALIBRATION (of course you will apply the correct settings before) ... and you're with a preset that you can apply when importing photos.
ksh> it's amazing because it's in your photos I see as the hot trend of LR that you must agree I have no doubt
August 5th, 2008 at 5:00
El IdrissiC: I have not yet looked at the side of this and since I'm pretty satisfied with the new profile I still do not see the interest
David: Cool, we're obviously all pretty much agree!
delphine: Yep! it just remains you apply this profile has all your pictures and any re-
Brik: saturation this rule, we must not forget that the saturation rises with the contrast
G: No but instantly I was a little late, but since I did any one to LR and hay these colors rotten, I had to return to this new version
Twane: There is always a bit of difference, but Capture One is not the gold standard, in this case for me with this profile the problem is solved!
Nawack: With pleasure!
mko: All softwares will offer a few different things, which is normal, until I find myself not with yellow faces and colors faithful to what I have in mind I am quite happy!
Coniglio: In this case I consider only the record, I should thoroughly test LR this weekend to see if I can work as fast as on C1
Vincent: the fun!
MickymX: Please answer a question I asked myself also!
ksh: I'm probably sensitive enough, but clearly I can see the difference between the old and new profile
August 5th, 2008 at 7:13
Ben thank you for the review
It is true that there is clear progress. RS is a soft attractive, but it has yet to be optimized, and there is not yet won.
It's not like NX, which is unusable for a series, but hey, a little effort from Adobe, would be welcome
CP1, keeps to himself, a thought tool for development, and nothing else, it does not get lost and are still top-class production.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:22
Thank you for the test, I did not think to search for profiles for LR2. It is improving but still remains CaptureOne front.
The faces are less red, less saturated.
I will still install the new plugin. CaptureOne is because even if I miss a great main thing is the lack of cataloging software. It's really a weak point for my use.
August 5th, 2008 at 10:02
Personally I'm not agreements ..
Test with LR and Capture One: I was also a problem in warm tones .. But with Capture One ..
Let me explain .. Lr with no problem I can see a rendering exactly as I want while with Capture One are saturated orange tones, I see completely blocked loses a lot of details etc. ..
It's just the way eg using each programs ..
August 6th, 2008 at 2:26
Francis, we're not talking color saturation, but a bdb and a calibration unit to the west with LR without the beta profiles.
Shade
August 6th, 2008 at 3:19
ksh: the difference is big enough yet ...
August 6th, 2008 at 11:32
G: I see the differences when the images are side by side, as I say it's just that I do not think that a photo was not a good color balance if there is no comparison with a other.
I'm working on LR since quite some time and I never had to complain of his record, I am not yet sufficiently trained eye, but if I treat the same image with C1 and I put them side rating may be in there that I renderai account
Francis: We are not talking here of saturation if I understood correctly, it is called white balance, which is quite different, you can have warm tones without being blocked
A +
August 6th, 2008 at 11:44
Gam: My nickname on the test only portrait made, it is true that LR is a reasonably slow, should I be seeing my configuration, but I hestime with a quad core xeon and 8 gigs of ram an application is supposed to run smoothly! I intend to use LR to work on a raw Wedding this weekend, I would see how LR behaves
Dnicolas.FR: The sturation and contrast this rule, I decided to show examples in C1 that I use as reference but with the new profile LR seems as capable as C1
Francois: The interest of the paper is to show that the new profile to fix the problems of LR red / orange confirmed by Adobe. Then everyone has their own preferences as noted Gam
ksh: You have already been tested with and without the new profile in LR?
August 7th, 2008 at 2:24
Rrrrrrrrrr Ben, deceive you there, and an 8GB Quad
But hey, you said the problem, you need a solid machine for manufac
August 7th, 2008 at 5:03
Yes thank you for this report
I had sent you an email without having tested it all (I expect to have sorted everything must be in the 1.4 version then I will change) and what I just read makes me happy, more disappointment the key, finally!
Again thank you!
August 8th, 2008 at 8:25
It's funny, because I was repeatedly told that my flesh colors were realistic (but very pink), in fact I made up for that sailing yellow / green with a tinge of pink to 10/20, which finally gave a fairly good result. Now, with this profile, I get over my amazingly green & yellow my my red, leaving the slider to 0!
Where I'm confused, it is in the settings of the camera calibration values of itself, ie for a D300, I found 0 / +2 / +15 / +5 / -5 / +5 / -15 ... does it still useful to correct the values that fit the profile or 4.4??
August 13th, 2008 at 10:03
But ...
Since the time that you mention it, I tried LR, but ... reassures me, when you know to use photoshop, there is no interest?
Besides it is slower, less complete ...
Or so I spend a side of the main features of LR
Anyway good article because it made me a try = D
August 15th, 2008 at 11:36
Hello Ben,
Thank you for this very interesting article ... Once again I'm tempted to say.
It would be valuable to add in the comparative renderings that comes standard in Capture NX 2 ... If you are not disposed of the software, I can take care of me if you provided your original files.
We wish to inform the mass processing of wedding photographs.
@ +
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:31
a big thank you for your article.
I finally solved my problems drift of yellow on my D2Hs in artificial light!
I'm thrilled!
August 29th, 2008 at 4:18
Hello and thank you for this post ...
Just one question: is it necessary, to take full advantage of these new parameters, use the config "Adobe" found in some NPC?
A +, Charly
August 29th, 2008 at 4:57
[...] Since the time that you mention it, I tried LR, but ... reassures me, when you know to use photoshop, there is no interest?
Besides it is slower, less complete ... [...]
Except that since I am under Lightroom, for studio sessions with parameters similar lighting I can dématricer whole series in 2 minutes, you develop a picture and you glue the development parameters for the rest of the series. Impossible with Photoshop and Camera RAW.
August 30th, 2008 at 4:46
But if!
Photoshop does .. with raw formats.
Okay, not the jpeg, but at the shoot in the studio, I do believe in raw format is very common, because of the quality of work subsequently obtained
I noted then that I would have it, for the jpeg, it's always good to know =)
August 31st, 2008 at 2:28
David, if you have Photoshop, is that you've also Bridge, this is where it is
August 31st, 2008 at 4:48
Gam Bridge I and I did not find any options for bonding parameters developments and if there is to it is not quite intuitive, so more reason to work with Lightroom rather than Bridge .
In addition if Adobe broke the c ... to develop an optimized development software for photographers it's still it's more convenient to work with. It is made for this and the workspace is not cluttered by any other useless tools of Photoshop and Bridge for this kind of work. Lightroom can still do things that others do not, simple visualization before / after retouching located. It includes the basic options of cataloguer Bridge and Photoshop post-processing which can not juggle too often with 3 software.
Finally it's all a matter of taste but I prefer for me to use a software function that groups all I need and which is intended to do what I want to do.
September 15th, 2008 at 24:50
I have a question about lightroom for everyone.
Finally, questions about Lightroom ...
I wonder how come that a JPEG file that weighs 764 kb after passing under 3MB weighs in Lightroom without changing size?
I do not know if it is located only just Lightroom.
If qqun can tell me why and how ...
September 15th, 2008 at 10:25
At my level I would say that they are the keywords you've saved in the image, an ICC profile etc. ....
September 17th, 2008 at 10:09
I record yet keywords lightroom on my images yet.
And even .. it would seem a lot for some non-text data?
September 17th, 2008 at 10:17
Ben thank you for the tip on LR
@ Dati: Certainly that uses JPEG compression Ligthroom minimum while your device may be using a high compression pressure.
September 17th, 2008 at 10:25
Ben, in the examples of Capture One give you my impression that the images are rendered more green. Is this correct or a false impression?
September 18th, 2008 at 9:54
It was after the passage of Lightroom that the file is heavier Stephane ...
September 20th, 2008 at 12:56
@ Dati
Just a minimum compression gives files more heavy, but with less loss of detail.
September 21st, 2008 at 1:16
Yes but the simple to more than triple.
Not to mention that Lightroom does not do better especially since the file from a file that is technically still unaltered logically heavier Finally ... I think ...
September 21st, 2008 at 7:44
Programs editions do change the JPG file itself. He first convert the JPG to a bitmap (so decompression) and then when you save the Bitmap to JPG, they recreate a new JPG regardless of quality first.
They can not improve (though ... see below) but the file can not try to create additional losses. Each time you save a JPEG image and then you converted a bitmap JPEG ago loss of data. These losses are even more important that the compression is high.
Note: some programs can recognize errors in the image created by the JPG compression (eg color fringes) and try to mitigate them.
October 26th, 2008 at 7:55
[...] As the work of Benjamin FAN, I check his site regularly. He wrote some very interesting articles on his workflow, his way of moving from shooting to the final photo, print-ready or ready to be seen on the web. Benjamin is a user ferving C1 (Capture One), his last article on this subject is passionnat: C1/Lightroom - warm tones. [...]
October 28th, 2008 at 8:39
So we wait your opinion on the beta 2 profiles
March 6th, 2009 at 1:35
[...] And those who tell me that I could test the trial version will instead see here I'm not [...]
March 19th, 2009 at 4:19
[...] And those who tell me that I could test the trial version will instead see here I'm not [...]
May 5th, 2009 at 3:59
Hello Ben
Just got back on your article and after work in LR 1 & 2 + 2 Apture, the I Capture One and I see too that the rendering is warmer (it was also in Aperture but it requires a Ultra powerful machine) that in RS, I did some tests pictures of shows, sports and outdoor shots of C1 makes better
can be rendered as hot as LR updating profiles and through a small manipulation of the CAB but it is not there yet
May 6th, 2009 at 12:14
[...] Had already observed this phenomenon with his Nikon Capture One and Lightroom face. (Read here and [...]
November 11th, 2010 at 1:55
[...] For those who tell me that I could test the trial version will plutà't see here I'm not [...]